tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post6539562277256750020..comments2024-03-07T20:28:26.235-05:00Comments on ORCSD Clean Slate: Board Members Turnbull, Lane, Butts Support PiedmontORCSDcleanslatehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07304668262841873199noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-45443196241221056592013-03-12T11:02:38.812-04:002013-03-12T11:02:38.812-04:00Congrats Ruth - your rude and obstructive viewpoin...Congrats Ruth - your rude and obstructive viewpoints while somewhat valid have left a bitter taste for those more open to debate and discussion. Stick to the points. Dave's points are not terrible, they are valid and backed up with facts. I don't understand the attitude of "I have all the answers and no one else's viewpoints are important and worth listening to!" Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-31883488350405359782013-03-11T13:26:28.132-04:002013-03-11T13:26:28.132-04:00Seth, I've been thinking about what you say he...Seth, I've been thinking about what you say here. The board members shouldn't decide the question as if they were deciding whether their own children can play. But how should they decide? There's presumably a level of danger the board may allow, giving parents the choice to accept it. How should they decide what that level is, and if football falls under it? - DeanORCSDcleanslatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07304668262841873199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-52282315797258898722013-03-11T12:41:24.271-04:002013-03-11T12:41:24.271-04:00Dude, I stopped trying after this became the "...Dude, I stopped trying after this became the "Ruth Sample Advocates Teaching Kids to Smoke Instead of Play Football" thread, something I'm sure she doesn't believe yet she threw it out there anyway. There's not a logical discussion to be had here, unfortunately, just obstructionism, as you noted, and it really pisses me off how political this has become (for no good reason). I'm furious that Ruth is pushing this as the issue du jour and fighting against something that she and her kids don't ever have to do -- there's no mandatory football participation clause! So... I've decided my time is better spent doing other things in support of the program. And now... I fly off for a week of music in Austin at SXSW!Dave Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121088254213258183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-42697975997044949892013-03-11T12:03:31.856-04:002013-03-11T12:03:31.856-04:00Ruth, you provide authoritative assessment of Dave...Ruth, you provide authoritative assessment of Dave's points, then counter "terrible arguments" with a rhetorical question like, "IS IT SAFE?" Hardly an EPIC PASS.<br /><br />What is safe? Is riding the bus to school safe? Not if you die in an accident. Is chomping on a Dunkin Donut munchkin safe? Not if it lodges in your throat and chokes you to death. How did you ever navigate the dangers of childbirth? I suspect it was an issue of risk vs. reward for you. Or do you not consider such things when YOU want something?<br /><br />Doesn't your husband have some "geeky math" he can use, i.e. MILLION HRS INJURY FREE PLAY[FUN + COMMUNITY + SPIRIT + COMRADERIE + ETC.] / HEAD TRAUMA to show the rewards of football far outweigh the risks? I think it would be a simple call for you to ask someone at the UNH athletic department how safe contact sports are. Any concerns beyond that amount to obstructionism.<br /><br />If your concern is about money, I'm with you there. Let's consolidate classrooms (which in my humble opinion wouldn't effect the educational outcomes of the students one iota) save us all millions of dollars, build an athletic field, line up the kids, and hike the ball. Calvin Jarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15500778611344344018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-81026678489889349422013-03-10T01:58:03.547-05:002013-03-10T01:58:03.547-05:00Done. Thanks for setting me straight.
I should h...Done. Thanks for setting me straight.<br /><br />I should have written Seth and Stephanie in the photo.<br />ORCSDcleanslatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07304668262841873199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-45519878260878738382013-03-09T09:13:39.616-05:002013-03-09T09:13:39.616-05:00Oh, man! The thing though my < / s n a r k >...Oh, man! The thing though my < / s n a r k > was an HTML tag and filtered it out. That was the best part of the post! ;)Dave Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121088254213258183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-5840823097517980042013-03-09T09:12:52.837-05:002013-03-09T09:12:52.837-05:00Dude, you're totally right! Let's ban plas...Dude, you're totally right! Let's ban plastic from being used to carry water in all of our school sports. That stuff's left out in the sun and the plastic will leech into the water and poison our kids!<br /><br /><br /><br />:) Sorry, I couldn't resist. I don't actually want to do that but it just seemed like too much fun. Plus, blog comments are supposed to just be an asynchronous verbal jam session anyway, right? And we're supposed to revisit themes to keep the circle going? ;)Dave Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121088254213258183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-9749489902598686072013-03-09T08:51:50.328-05:002013-03-09T08:51:50.328-05:00No photoshop. Maybe that's how they carried w...No photoshop. Maybe that's how they carried water in the old, pre-plastic everywhere days.<br />ORCSDcleanslatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07304668262841873199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-9500208385887308512013-03-09T08:16:25.809-05:002013-03-09T08:16:25.809-05:00HELLO, you were NINE! Did you photoshop that in? ...HELLO, you were NINE! Did you photoshop that in? Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13896185855308028393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-53667072201887093872013-03-08T23:39:18.569-05:002013-03-08T23:39:18.569-05:00Why was there a keg at practice?Why was there a keg at practice?ORCSDcleanslatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07304668262841873199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-59041699501550361542013-03-08T22:35:48.747-05:002013-03-08T22:35:48.747-05:00That's awesome, man. :)That's awesome, man. :)Dave Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121088254213258183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-61867632256960779712013-03-08T15:27:03.614-05:002013-03-08T15:27:03.614-05:00Check out the photo I added to the top of the post...Check out the photo I added to the top of the post.<br /><br />ORCSDcleanslatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07304668262841873199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-86982755056686663802013-03-08T13:27:10.597-05:002013-03-08T13:27:10.597-05:00Dean, I agree with Seth’s comment on pictures of t...Dean, I agree with Seth’s comment on pictures of the kids. Yes, people did post the pictures themselves for the entire cyber world to see, but I still don’t think you should do it. Exception being if a candidate, for any position, chooses to make that part of the campaign material. Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16979284309752464747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-41604339736578665482013-03-08T13:22:46.886-05:002013-03-08T13:22:46.886-05:00THanks for this, Ruth.
Honestly, I think the safe...THanks for this, Ruth.<br /><br />Honestly, I think the safety issue with football (in particular) is something that we as a small town shouldn't waste our time or resources researching. All that research has been done already, and there's nothing we'd be able to do to add to it (or change it). We (or, by proxy, the board members) need to read the research, form a decision, and vote. That's #1. <br /><br />As for cost, I think you understand this but for anyone else reading along: the program would be signing a Memorandum of Understanding with the district that effectively makes it impossible for anyone at the school to divert funds to the football program. It would *have* to be self-sustaining or by definition (and NHIAA standards) will fail. There is no alternative. So the cost thing is handled, too. Again, no reason to spend our time and effort researching it because that's already been done, too.<br /><br />And to answer my own question and be 100% transparent: Until I moved to OR 8 years ago, I didn't even know it was possible to have a high school and NOT have a football team or marching band. I was truly flabbergasted when I got here that we didn't have that. Never even crossed my mind to ask as we were researching "good school areas" to move to. So... when the seeds of this program started 4 years ago, I was ecstatic and followed along with great interest. Now we have this momentum and opportunity to, in my mind, "right a wrong" with our town. And it costs us nothing to test it for 2 years.<br /><br />I grew up with the benefits of a football program in our school system, and our team really wasn't that good, to be honest -- they usually lost. But it didn't matter. It became a community event, everyone in town (students and residents alike) would pack the stands, and it brought us all together. I played in the marching band and we did our halftime show (which then gave US momentum to start competing at marching band competitions, which was a blast). In sum, those experiences were fantastic, and I just can't fathom what high school would have been like without them.<br /><br />So (and to answer Julie Reece's question below) the rush for me is so that my kids (in 5th and 7th grade) will have that opportunity to experience all those things here. That would be awesome.Dave Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121088254213258183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-64357216477899604142013-03-08T12:21:09.226-05:002013-03-08T12:21:09.226-05:00Just briefly Dave,
1. We have more important iss...Just briefly Dave,<br /><br />1. We have more important issues than football, and given the safety and cost concerns, I think we should put our efforts elsewhere. But if people want it, they need to show it's safe and not a legal liability first. I am only one person with one vote.<br />2. I like to watch football, I even flew to Oxford for an Ole Miss game, but when I look at what happens to football players, I feel pretty bad about it, especially with the news that has been coming out. Not that it's relevant, but I'd rather watch basketball, hockey, or tennis, if I have time to watch anything. But my personal sporting preferences are irrelevant. This is a policy issue, safety and money are #1.<br />3. I think Kenny is experienced and dedicated. I don't know much about Mr. Piedmont, but he's only been to one SB meeting. Kenny has been to dozen, and knows the issues. I'm voting for Kenny Rotner and Tom Newkirk. I don't know about their views on football. I don't now whether you have ever seen Tom skate, but it's SCARY how fast he is. He is really impressive, and not just for his age. But I'm not voting for Tom because he is an awesome skater, I'm for him because he knows what he's doing and cares about education. But he is in incredible skater.Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13896185855308028393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-85086143458648887252013-03-08T11:25:10.625-05:002013-03-08T11:25:10.625-05:00Heh… Ruth, I was indeed cherry-picking. That was t...Heh… Ruth, I was indeed cherry-picking. That was the point of my example (sorry if it wasn't clear). I'm just wondering if we're asking these people to speak so that we can learn from them, or if we're asking them to speak to support our pre-existing viewpoints. The safety issue that's being shoved in here feels 100% like the latter, that's all.<br /><br />I don't disagree with you (in fact, I think we're probably pretty close to the same page ;), safety's important. My kid plays football, lacrosse, and hockey. I get the safety issue and it's something we discuss at home all the time. But safety in school sports always has and always will be addressed, and whether or not we have football. This thread is evidence of that.<br /><br />And I'm pretty sure you know that, because you're clearly a smart person.<br /><br />So... that means this is about something else for you, and near as I can tell that's likely one of two things. Since I'm not one to beat around the bush, I'll just ask:<br /><br />Is it that you don't like football and don't want it in our school? If so, that makes perfect sense.<br /><br />Or is it that you'd prefer to see Kenneth Rotner elected over Carl Piedmont and football is a key issue separating them? That's OK, too.<br /><br />Or is it something else I haven't predicted because I don't know you well-enough to do that?Dave Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121088254213258183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-40910367174697642812013-03-08T11:13:12.297-05:002013-03-08T11:13:12.297-05:00I saw the presentation on Wednesday night. I unde...I saw the presentation on Wednesday night. I understand the framework, however, I also understand that 5 years down the road, we have a football program and the expectation of a football program. If the new football booster club doesn't want the burden of funding the entire program, I see them asking the board and it being very difficult of impossible to say "no" and then eliminate what is now a vested program at the ORHS. That is why, I want more information, and frankly, I want it from the AD. The info provided at the board was from the group that supports the program, so it does need to be looked at with some objectivity and with weighing other programming initiatives and obligations over the next several years. And, I really don't see what the rush is.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11350521711850828891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-73530465269334013682013-03-08T11:09:05.107-05:002013-03-08T11:09:05.107-05:00Dave's arguments are terrible!
1. I think...Dave's arguments are terrible! <br /><br />1. I think we can call your first one "Safety, Schmafety." Everything's dangerous! So let's not split hairs over what causes traumatic brain injury and what causes, say, Achilles Tendinitis. Do I need to tell you why this is a bad argument, Dave?<br /><br />2. The second one is the "Secret Agenda Argument," AKA, "I Know What You're REALLY Thinking!" It's whatever Dave says you are thinking. Really? What "lines" are you reading between? Many of us who are concerned about safety are competitive athletes. We compete to win. As captain of my track and cross country teams and Most Valuable Runner every single year in HS, I loved to compete. I liked to win, and I liked it even more when my team won. I can't speak for everyone, but when I say I am concerned about safety, that's what I'm concerned about. Perhaps you can identify the people with the "secret agenda"?<br /><br />If you don't have any evidence that safety concerns are simply a smokescreen for an aversion to competition, then you are simply MAKING THINGS UP. You can grant yourself permission to BS if you want to (and then let your left hand give your right hand $5!), but it's still ridiculous. EPIC FAIL.<br /><br />3. The "Kids Will Do It Anyway, So Let's Help Them" argument is really bad! Why not hand out packs of Lucky Strikes? Kids will smoke anyway, so why not organize it for them? Perhaps you, as did I, went to a High School with a "Smoking Patio." (My High School was basically the HS in "Freaks and Geeks.") What an awful idea! Even as a rebellious teenager, I thought, "What the hell is wrong with the adults? Are inmates running the asylum?" (ANSWER: YES.)<br /><br />Anyway, if it's a safe sport and it teaches kids important skills and habits, then of course we should consider sponsoring it, once other issues like cost are addressed. But that just ignores the elephant in the room: IS IT SAFE?<br /><br />Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13896185855308028393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-9982670048988443732013-03-08T10:49:32.053-05:002013-03-08T10:49:32.053-05:00You raise important questions, Julie, and I encour...You raise important questions, Julie, and I encourage you to watch the video of the ORCSD board meeting the other night. A lot of the uncertainty you bring up is answered there. Specifically about the future of the funding, the way this would work is that a Memorandum of Understanding would be put in place that the program would definitively fund itself. That becomes part of the core foundation, and cannot change unless the town changes their entire stance and offers to do so. It wouldn't be up to the AD or anyone at the school, it would have to be changed and (re-)approved by the board, so we taxpayers are safe in that regard.<br /><br />As for more music at ORHS, now you're talking my language. I never played sports, but I've been a drummer since middle school (and still play today). It *kills* me that we don't have more music at the high school, and honestly a big part of my personal "secret agenda" for wanting football there is that then creates the gravity we would need to get a marching band going. That gets more kids involved with music and in turn creates a larger concert band, orchestra, etc. The benefit to the community of having football at the highschool is huge, and whether or not my son chooses to play (or we let him play) when he gets there is immaterial to my desire to see it at least *offered* to the kids at the school. And to be able to test ALL of this with no cost to us as taxpayers... man, let 'er rip!Dave Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121088254213258183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-82438663127117963872013-03-08T10:36:52.541-05:002013-03-08T10:36:52.541-05:00Well who do want to speak about the safety issue, ...Well who do want to speak about the safety issue, the Psychic Friends Network? <br /><br />We already heard from the people who love to play football and the people who love to watch football. I believe them! If you want to talk about the impact of football on your life prospects, let's get a complete picture of that. That would include what happens to the full range of ex-football players, not just your cherry-picked "captains of industry." <br /><br />Dr. Butler played football, he loves football, so he can speak with a certain credibility on this. If you want to know about safety, let's talk to medical experts who can fully address the safety issue. <br />Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13896185855308028393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-8569564059430440212013-03-08T09:04:09.040-05:002013-03-08T09:04:09.040-05:00For me, this is a question of limited resources, a...For me, this is a question of limited resources, and I can't believe the board is considering adding any program when there is so much uncertainty. I think they, or we as a community, need to figure out what our plan is with respect to our projected declining enrollments. We may also want to wait to find out what we may be required to add due to Common Core (all day Kindergarten? more and better computers?). I am very skeptical of the self-funding aspect of the proposed football program. I am interested to see the AD's report on that. Also, what happens in a few years when the passionate and energetic football parents are gone? The district will be ask to support all or at least some of the football bill, so what would the cost be and how would that affect other sports and other programs? There are a lot of things I would like to see for the kids and that they deserve... how about K-12 foreign language education-- are you tired of hearing me say that yet?-- OK, then how about a track?, how about more music at the ORHS?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11350521711850828891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-57914265531934864092013-03-08T07:49:12.852-05:002013-03-08T07:49:12.852-05:00Does the board really need to hear this doctor spe...Does the board really need to hear this doctor speak? If so, then lets get some captains of industry to come in and tell us about their life stories and how the lessons they learned playing football as kids were instrumental to their life successes, too. Because it seems like we're cherry-picking here to simply support pre-existing viewpoints, and that's not fair to anyone, especially the kids.<br /><br />I don't think we need more data like this, but if we do, lets make sure we explore this holistically. Regardless, let's do it fast. It's not fair for the board to use extended filibustering to kill this for the kids.Dave Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121088254213258183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-47035106047219709712013-03-08T07:28:23.719-05:002013-03-08T07:28:23.719-05:00Plus, how cool would it be to head over to Cowell ...Plus, how cool would it be to head over to Cowell Stadium on a fall Friday night under those lights and see our kids play? That's pretty awesome if you ask me. :)Dave Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121088254213258183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-83685626400736806452013-03-08T07:25:37.546-05:002013-03-08T07:25:37.546-05:00Very well said. These kids deserve the chance to p...Very well said. These kids deserve the chance to play. But here we are again with a small faction of the community running the show. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1366233659170283749.post-6689811521690048292013-03-08T07:12:08.210-05:002013-03-08T07:12:08.210-05:00All of this fear-mongering about football comes ac...All of this fear-mongering about football comes across as insincere to me. We allow hockey and soccer and music in our high school. Should we stop those? I mean, the first two have significant injury risks, the latter, well, some musicians do drugs, and if the kids stick with music for the rest of their lives they're bound to encounter (well-respected) peers and mentors who offer them such things. Is that a reason to stop those? Our kids are going to be exposed to a lot of dangers. Let's let them learn about some of those while still under the tutelage of us parents, please.<br /><br />Seems to me, reading between the lines if I may (and I grant myself permission, thank you) is that there's some level of, "oh my goodness we don't want to promote yet another activity where kids will learn that they can do something and be a WINNER which therefore means that another kid has to be the LOSER." Is that what the opposition to football really is? If so, then lets just say that, shall we? It's OK to have that viewpoint, and then at least we can debate it transparently instead of coming up with all these other opposition points instead.<br /><br />Kids who want to play football will play it (with parents permission), even if that means going somewhere else to do so. And clearly a lot of kids here in ORCSD do want to play it and already play it. They showed up with hat in hand and money in pocket asking the school to let them do it here so that the kids can play against teams of other schools. The reason to fast-track it? The program has been building steam for 4 years and has great momentum. Lets do it now and let the experiment happen. If it fails, we kill it in 2 years and we're done, safe in the knowledge that we tried (with no cost to the taxpayers!) and we failed. And that's a lesson in and of itself. Better to try and fail than...Dave Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121088254213258183noreply@blogger.com